[sakai-dev] Would you like to restore assignments?

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Miguel Pellicer Carro Miguel Pellicer Carro
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[sakai-dev] Would you like to restore assignments?

Hi subscribers, would you like to restore removed assignments?

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https://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAK-33603 contains all the required changes to make it possible, feel free to take a look and comment for this really useful feature, the feedback from the community is very important.

It also allows the possibility to permanently remove an assignment.

Regards, Miguel

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Matthew Jones-2 Matthew Jones-2
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[sakai-dev] Re: [sakai-user] Would you like to restore assignments?

I think we should have some consistency in Sakai around soft delete. I kind of like how evaluation handles progression of state. There's 7 states defined in the constants file

     States: Partial -> InQueue -> Active -> GracePeriod -> Closed -> Viewable (-> Deleted)

When it gets to the deleted state, it's no longer accessible by the user but still exists in the system. I think tools like content, site (now assignment) should be similar, but may not have every state.

- I'm okay with anyone being able to temporarily remove (and restore) anything that they delete themselves. (In the Deleted state) 
- I feel like the ability to permanently delete either only be available to admin users  or just to quartz (jobs) that periodically clean out deleted content like  the SoftSiteDeletionJob and the CleanupDeletedContent job. It would be nice if there was some indication to the instructor of when it would be automatically deleted, but I feel that this should really be locked by a permission.

In a perfect Sakai world, all of these individual cleanup jobs would be refactored into one single job so it's easier to maintain, possibly with quartz job parameters with different values for how long to retain the content.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:07 PM Miguel Pellicer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi subscribers, would you like to restore removed assignments?

Imágenes integradas 1


https://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAK-33603 contains all the required changes to make it possible, feel free to take a look and comment for this really useful feature, the feedback from the community is very important.

It also allows the possibility to permanently remove an assignment.

Regards, Miguel

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Dede Hourican-2 Dede Hourican-2
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Re: [sakai-dev] Re: [sakai-user] Would you like to restore assignments?

Miguel, 

Like Jolie, I think this is a wonderful idea. My upvote is in the jira as well. 

Dede Hourican 
__________________________ 
Phone (860) 333-8799

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:23 PM, 'Matthew Jones' via Sakai Development <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think we should have some consistency in Sakai around soft delete. I kind of like how evaluation handles progression of state. There's 7 states defined in the constants file

     States: Partial -> InQueue -> Active -> GracePeriod -> Closed -> Viewable (-> Deleted)

When it gets to the deleted state, it's no longer accessible by the user but still exists in the system. I think tools like content, site (now assignment) should be similar, but may not have every state.

- I'm okay with anyone being able to temporarily remove (and restore) anything that they delete themselves. (In the Deleted state) 
- I feel like the ability to permanently delete either only be available to admin users  or just to quartz (jobs) that periodically clean out deleted content like  the SoftSiteDeletionJob and the CleanupDeletedContent job. It would be nice if there was some indication to the instructor of when it would be automatically deleted, but I feel that this should really be locked by a permission.

In a perfect Sakai world, all of these individual cleanup jobs would be refactored into one single job so it's easier to maintain, possibly with quartz job parameters with different values for how long to retain the content.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:07 PM Miguel Pellicer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi subscribers, would you like to restore removed assignments?

Imágenes integradas 1


https://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAK-33603 contains all the required changes to make it possible, feel free to take a look and comment for this really useful feature, the feedback from the community is very important.

It also allows the possibility to permanently remove an assignment.

Regards, Miguel

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Tiffany Stull Tiffany Stull
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Re: [sakai-dev] Re: [sakai-user] Would you like to restore assignments?

That said, for consistency's sake, maybe the tab should be named Trash so it matches Resources?

Tiffany


On 2/12/2018 3:19 PM, Tiffany Stull wrote:

Hi Miguel,

I like it too, and added a vote.  Maybe it could also be a model for the soft delete/restore I requested for Tests & Quizzes in SAM-3237?

Tiffany Stull

On 2/12/2018 1:49 PM, Dede Hourican wrote:
Miguel, 

Like Jolie, I think this is a wonderful idea. My upvote is in the jira as well. 

Dede Hourican 
__________________________ 
Phone (860) 333-8799

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:23 PM, 'Matthew Jones' via Sakai Development <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think we should have some consistency in Sakai around soft delete. I kind of like how evaluation handles progression of state. There's 7 states defined in the constants file

     States: Partial -> InQueue -> Active -> GracePeriod -> Closed -> Viewable (-> Deleted)

When it gets to the deleted state, it's no longer accessible by the user but still exists in the system. I think tools like content, site (now assignment) should be similar, but may not have every state.

- I'm okay with anyone being able to temporarily remove (and restore) anything that they delete themselves. (In the Deleted state) 
- I feel like the ability to permanently delete either only be available to admin users  or just to quartz (jobs) that periodically clean out deleted content like  the SoftSiteDeletionJob and the CleanupDeletedContent job. It would be nice if there was some indication to the instructor of when it would be automatically deleted, but I feel that this should really be locked by a permission.

In a perfect Sakai world, all of these individual cleanup jobs would be refactored into one single job so it's easier to maintain, possibly with quartz job parameters with different values for how long to retain the content.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:07 PM Miguel Pellicer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi subscribers, would you like to restore removed assignments?

Imágenes integradas 1


https://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAK-33603 contains all the required changes to make it possible, feel free to take a look and comment for this really useful feature, the feedback from the community is very important.

It also allows the possibility to permanently remove an assignment.

Regards, Miguel

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Adam Marshall-2 Adam Marshall-2
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Re: [sakai-dev] Re: [sakai-user] Would you like to restore assignments?

Sites are referred to as 'softly deleted' so there's already two bits of differing terminology.

Adam

Sent from my rather wonderful OnePlus phone




On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 9:03 PM +0000, "Tiffany Stull" <[hidden email]> wrote:

That said, for consistency's sake, maybe the tab should be named Trash so it matches Resources?

Tiffany


On 2/12/2018 3:19 PM, Tiffany Stull wrote:

Hi Miguel,

I like it too, and added a vote.  Maybe it could also be a model for the soft delete/restore I requested for Tests & Quizzes in SAM-3237?

Tiffany Stull

On 2/12/2018 1:49 PM, Dede Hourican wrote:
Miguel, 

Like Jolie, I think this is a wonderful idea. My upvote is in the jira as well. 

Dede Hourican 
__________________________ 
Phone (860) 333-8799

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:23 PM, 'Matthew Jones' via Sakai Development <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think we should have some consistency in Sakai around soft delete. I kind of like how evaluation handles progression of state. There's 7 states defined in the constants file

     States: Partial -> InQueue -> Active -> GracePeriod -> Closed -> Viewable (-> Deleted)

When it gets to the deleted state, it's no longer accessible by the user but still exists in the system. I think tools like content, site (now assignment) should be similar, but may not have every state.

- I'm okay with anyone being able to temporarily remove (and restore) anything that they delete themselves. (In the Deleted state) 
- I feel like the ability to permanently delete either only be available to admin users  or just to quartz (jobs) that periodically clean out deleted content like  the SoftSiteDeletionJob and the CleanupDeletedContent job. It would be nice if there was some indication to the instructor of when it would be automatically deleted, but I feel that this should really be locked by a permission.

In a perfect Sakai world, all of these individual cleanup jobs would be refactored into one single job so it's easier to maintain, possibly with quartz job parameters with different values for how long to retain the content.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:07 PM Miguel Pellicer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi subscribers, would you like to restore removed assignments?

Imágenes integradas 1


https://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAK-33603 contains all the required changes to make it possible, feel free to take a look and comment for this really useful feature, the feedback from the community is very important.

It also allows the possibility to permanently remove an assignment.

Regards, Miguel

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Tiffany Stull Tiffany Stull
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Re: [sakai-dev] Re: [sakai-user] Would you like to restore assignments?

Yes, and perhaps that should not be the case.  The average user is familiar with the terminology Trash because on most computers, softly deleted files go in a Trash or Recycling Bin.

However, because of how Softly Deleted sites are accessed for restore (via the drop-down menu in Worksite Setup), it makes more sense to have different terminology for it than for two tabs with essentially the same functionality in tools (Resources and Assignments) within a course or project site.  Also, and I could be completely wrong here, I would guess that more users accidentally delete and want to restore assignments (especially if these have student submissions!) than those who delete sites.

Tiffany

On 2/12/2018 4:27 PM, Adam Marshall wrote:
Sites are referred to as 'softly deleted' so there's already two bits of differing terminology.

Adam

Sent from my rather wonderful OnePlus phone




On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 9:03 PM +0000, "Tiffany Stull" <[hidden email]> wrote:

That said, for consistency's sake, maybe the tab should be named Trash so it matches Resources?

Tiffany


On 2/12/2018 3:19 PM, Tiffany Stull wrote:

Hi Miguel,

I like it too, and added a vote.  Maybe it could also be a model for the soft delete/restore I requested for Tests & Quizzes in SAM-3237?

Tiffany Stull

On 2/12/2018 1:49 PM, Dede Hourican wrote:
Miguel, 

Like Jolie, I think this is a wonderful idea. My upvote is in the jira as well. 

Dede Hourican 
__________________________ 
Phone (860) 333-8799

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:23 PM, 'Matthew Jones' via Sakai Development <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think we should have some consistency in Sakai around soft delete. I kind of like how evaluation handles progression of state. There's 7 states defined in the constants file

     States: Partial -> InQueue -> Active -> GracePeriod -> Closed -> Viewable (-> Deleted)

When it gets to the deleted state, it's no longer accessible by the user but still exists in the system. I think tools like content, site (now assignment) should be similar, but may not have every state.

- I'm okay with anyone being able to temporarily remove (and restore) anything that they delete themselves. (In the Deleted state) 
- I feel like the ability to permanently delete either only be available to admin users  or just to quartz (jobs) that periodically clean out deleted content like  the SoftSiteDeletionJob and the CleanupDeletedContent job. It would be nice if there was some indication to the instructor of when it would be automatically deleted, but I feel that this should really be locked by a permission.

In a perfect Sakai world, all of these individual cleanup jobs would be refactored into one single job so it's easier to maintain, possibly with quartz job parameters with different values for how long to retain the content.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:07 PM Miguel Pellicer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi subscribers, would you like to restore removed assignments?

Imágenes integradas 1


https://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAK-33603 contains all the required changes to make it possible, feel free to take a look and comment for this really useful feature, the feedback from the community is very important.

It also allows the possibility to permanently remove an assignment.

Regards, Miguel

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Tiffany Stull Tiffany Stull
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Re: [sakai-dev] Re: [sakai-user] Would you like to restore assignments?

Hi Adam,

After sending my last message, I thought of a better example to illustrate the need to reduce the different terminology for similar functions in Sakai, rather than adding more differing terminology.  I understand that this is a goal of the UI/UX inventory project.

I worked with a user who was particularly concerned about the wording in the Import from Site process, indicating that what exactly would happen upon "replacing or merging data" was not clear (what gets replaced, and with what, or where do items get merged - do they leave the original site when they are added to the new site?)  He also found it confusing that the word data is only used on the first page of this process, and nowhere else, i.e., I would like to replace my data vs. I would like to merge my data.  The second and third pages of the process refer to the content to be copied as Material: page 2 says Import Material from Other Sites, and page 3, Re-use Material from Other Sites.

Meanwhile, our Help documentation refers to "items being copied" as content, for example: How do I copy content from one site to another? is the article about Import from Site.  The link to access the cross-site copy functionality within Resources and Drop Box is Copy content from my other sites. (The Help article for that is How do I copy a Resources file or folder from one site to another site?)

Why not use the word content in the Import from Site process too, for example: Replace content in this site with content copied from other site(s) and Add copied content to this site? OK, maybe that makes the link text too long, but I'm sure it could be edited down with appropriate descriptions on the page to clarify what will happen when you follow the steps after clicking each link.

All this to say that wherever possible, we need to lessen the number of different words used to describe similar functions so it is clear, for example, that "Stuff I delete from X tool goes in that tool's Trash, where I can go to restore it."

Tiffany


On 2/12/2018 4:40 PM, Tiffany Stull wrote:

Yes, and perhaps that should not be the case.  The average user is familiar with the terminology Trash because on most computers, softly deleted files go in a Trash or Recycling Bin.

However, because of how Softly Deleted sites are accessed for restore (via the drop-down menu in Worksite Setup), it makes more sense to have different terminology for it than for two tabs with essentially the same functionality in tools (Resources and Assignments) within a course or project site.  Also, and I could be completely wrong here, I would guess that more users accidentally delete and want to restore assignments (especially if these have student submissions!) than those who delete sites.

Tiffany

On 2/12/2018 4:27 PM, Adam Marshall wrote:
Sites are referred to as 'softly deleted' so there's already two bits of differing terminology.

Adam

Sent from my rather wonderful OnePlus phone




On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 9:03 PM +0000, "Tiffany Stull" <[hidden email]> wrote:

That said, for consistency's sake, maybe the tab should be named Trash so it matches Resources?

Tiffany


On 2/12/2018 3:19 PM, Tiffany Stull wrote:

Hi Miguel,

I like it too, and added a vote.  Maybe it could also be a model for the soft delete/restore I requested for Tests & Quizzes in SAM-3237?

Tiffany Stull

On 2/12/2018 1:49 PM, Dede Hourican wrote:
Miguel, 

Like Jolie, I think this is a wonderful idea. My upvote is in the jira as well. 

Dede Hourican 
__________________________ 
Phone (860) 333-8799

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:23 PM, 'Matthew Jones' via Sakai Development <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think we should have some consistency in Sakai around soft delete. I kind of like how evaluation handles progression of state. There's 7 states defined in the constants file

     States: Partial -> InQueue -> Active -> GracePeriod -> Closed -> Viewable (-> Deleted)

When it gets to the deleted state, it's no longer accessible by the user but still exists in the system. I think tools like content, site (now assignment) should be similar, but may not have every state.

- I'm okay with anyone being able to temporarily remove (and restore) anything that they delete themselves. (In the Deleted state) 
- I feel like the ability to permanently delete either only be available to admin users  or just to quartz (jobs) that periodically clean out deleted content like  the SoftSiteDeletionJob and the CleanupDeletedContent job. It would be nice if there was some indication to the instructor of when it would be automatically deleted, but I feel that this should really be locked by a permission.

In a perfect Sakai world, all of these individual cleanup jobs would be refactored into one single job so it's easier to maintain, possibly with quartz job parameters with different values for how long to retain the content.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:07 PM Miguel Pellicer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi subscribers, would you like to restore removed assignments?

Imágenes integradas 1


https://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAK-33603 contains all the required changes to make it possible, feel free to take a look and comment for this really useful feature, the feedback from the community is very important.

It also allows the possibility to permanently remove an assignment.

Regards, Miguel

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Adam Marshall-2 Adam Marshall-2
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Re: [sakai-dev] Re: [sakai-user] Would you like to restore assignments?

I am all for the harmonisation of terminology and the example you site is a good one.

I've never liked the term 'softly deleted'. Even though it's as American as moms apple pie being eaten by a cowboy wearing a ten gallon hat in loud checked trousers, 'move to trash' is universally understood. However, in worksite setup, what should the noun be in the view menu? 'trashed sites', doesn't sound right but is the obvious candidate.

Adam

Sent from my iPad

On 12 Feb 2018, at 22:51, Tiffany Stull <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Adam,

After sending my last message, I thought of a better example to illustrate the need to reduce the different terminology for similar functions in Sakai, rather than adding more differing terminology.  I understand that this is a goal of the UI/UX inventory project.

I worked with a user who was particularly concerned about the wording in the Import from Site process, indicating that what exactly would happen upon "replacing or merging data" was not clear (what gets replaced, and with what, or where do items get merged - do they leave the original site when they are added to the new site?)  He also found it confusing that the word data is only used on the first page of this process, and nowhere else, i.e., I would like to replace my data vs. I would like to merge my data.  The second and third pages of the process refer to the content to be copied as Material: page 2 says Import Material from Other Sites, and page 3, Re-use Material from Other Sites.

Meanwhile, our Help documentation refers to "items being copied" as content, for example: How do I copy content from one site to another? is the article about Import from Site.  The link to access the cross-site copy functionality within Resources and Drop Box is Copy content from my other sites. (The Help article for that is How do I copy a Resources file or folder from one site to another site?)

Why not use the word content in the Import from Site process too, for example: Replace content in this site with content copied from other site(s) and Add copied content to this site? OK, maybe that makes the link text too long, but I'm sure it could be edited down with appropriate descriptions on the page to clarify what will happen when you follow the steps after clicking each link.

All this to say that wherever possible, we need to lessen the number of different words used to describe similar functions so it is clear, for example, that "Stuff I delete from X tool goes in that tool's Trash, where I can go to restore it."

Tiffany


On 2/12/2018 4:40 PM, Tiffany Stull wrote:

Yes, and perhaps that should not be the case.  The average user is familiar with the terminology Trash because on most computers, softly deleted files go in a Trash or Recycling Bin.

However, because of how Softly Deleted sites are accessed for restore (via the drop-down menu in Worksite Setup), it makes more sense to have different terminology for it than for two tabs with essentially the same functionality in tools (Resources and Assignments) within a course or project site.  Also, and I could be completely wrong here, I would guess that more users accidentally delete and want to restore assignments (especially if these have student submissions!) than those who delete sites.

Tiffany

On 2/12/2018 4:27 PM, Adam Marshall wrote:
Sites are referred to as 'softly deleted' so there's already two bits of differing terminology.

Adam

Sent from my rather wonderful OnePlus phone




On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 9:03 PM +0000, "Tiffany Stull" <[hidden email]> wrote:

That said, for consistency's sake, maybe the tab should be named Trash so it matches Resources?

Tiffany


On 2/12/2018 3:19 PM, Tiffany Stull wrote:

Hi Miguel,

I like it too, and added a vote.  Maybe it could also be a model for the soft delete/restore I requested for Tests & Quizzes in SAM-3237?

Tiffany Stull

On 2/12/2018 1:49 PM, Dede Hourican wrote:
Miguel, 

Like Jolie, I think this is a wonderful idea. My upvote is in the jira as well. 

Dede Hourican 
__________________________ 
Phone (860) 333-8799

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:23 PM, 'Matthew Jones' via Sakai Development <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think we should have some consistency in Sakai around soft delete. I kind of like how evaluation handles progression of state. There's 7 states defined in the constants file

     States: Partial -> InQueue -> Active -> GracePeriod -> Closed -> Viewable (-> Deleted)

When it gets to the deleted state, it's no longer accessible by the user but still exists in the system. I think tools like content, site (now assignment) should be similar, but may not have every state.

- I'm okay with anyone being able to temporarily remove (and restore) anything that they delete themselves. (In the Deleted state) 
- I feel like the ability to permanently delete either only be available to admin users  or just to quartz (jobs) that periodically clean out deleted content like  the SoftSiteDeletionJob and the CleanupDeletedContent job. It would be nice if there was some indication to the instructor of when it would be automatically deleted, but I feel that this should really be locked by a permission.

In a perfect Sakai world, all of these individual cleanup jobs would be refactored into one single job so it's easier to maintain, possibly with quartz job parameters with different values for how long to retain the content.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:07 PM Miguel Pellicer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi subscribers, would you like to restore removed assignments?

<unnamed.gif>


https://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAK-33603 contains all the required changes to make it possible, feel free to take a look and comment for this really useful feature, the feedback from the community is very important.

It also allows the possibility to permanently remove an assignment.

Regards, Miguel

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Miguel Pellicer Carro Miguel Pellicer Carro
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[sakai-dev] Re: [sakai-user] Would you like to restore assignments?

In reply to this post by Matthew Jones-2
Totally agree with you Matt!

Should I remove (Or leave it commented, or only-admin access) the option to hard delete assignments?

This would be a small amount of work and it's interesting. The Quartz job will be a higher amount of work, I would like to have it in a separate Jira/Feature.

Miguel

El 12/02/2018 a las 19:23, Matthew Jones escribió:
I think we should have some consistency in Sakai around soft delete. I kind of like how evaluation handles progression of state. There's 7 states defined in the constants file

     States: Partial -> InQueue -> Active -> GracePeriod -> Closed -> Viewable (-> Deleted)

When it gets to the deleted state, it's no longer accessible by the user but still exists in the system. I think tools like content, site (now assignment) should be similar, but may not have every state.

- I'm okay with anyone being able to temporarily remove (and restore) anything that they delete themselves. (In the Deleted state) 
- I feel like the ability to permanently delete either only be available to admin users  or just to quartz (jobs) that periodically clean out deleted content like  the SoftSiteDeletionJob and the CleanupDeletedContent job. It would be nice if there was some indication to the instructor of when it would be automatically deleted, but I feel that this should really be locked by a permission.

In a perfect Sakai world, all of these individual cleanup jobs would be refactored into one single job so it's easier to maintain, possibly with quartz job parameters with different values for how long to retain the content.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:07 PM Miguel Pellicer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi subscribers, would you like to restore removed assignments?

Imágenes integradas 1


https://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAK-33603 contains all the required changes to make it possible, feel free to take a look and comment for this really useful feature, the feedback from the community is very important.

It also allows the possibility to permanently remove an assignment.

Regards, Miguel

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Office Phone: +34 - 96 381 35 75
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Miguel Pellicer Carro Miguel Pellicer Carro
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Re: [sakai-dev] Re: [sakai-user] Would you like to restore assignments?

In reply to this post by Dede Hourican-2

Yes, It's a similar model but Samigo needs more work to support Hard-delete through API's and persistence.

We have it in a 10.x instance but was developed on demand, hard to contribute because we have more changes, I would like to do it for Master (Maybe targeted for 13). We don't call it "Removed assessments" or "Softly deleted", we call it "Archived", we use the "Archive" "Restore" "Delete" wording.

Miguel


El 12/02/2018 a las 21:19, Tiffany Stull escribió:

Hi Miguel,

I like it too, and added a vote.  Maybe it could also be a model for the soft delete/restore I requested for Tests & Quizzes in SAM-3237?

Tiffany Stull

On 2/12/2018 1:49 PM, Dede Hourican wrote:
Miguel, 

Like Jolie, I think this is a wonderful idea. My upvote is in the jira as well. 

Dede Hourican 
__________________________ 
Phone (860) 333-8799

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:23 PM, 'Matthew Jones' via Sakai Development <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think we should have some consistency in Sakai around soft delete. I kind of like how evaluation handles progression of state. There's 7 states defined in the constants file

     States: Partial -> InQueue -> Active -> GracePeriod -> Closed -> Viewable (-> Deleted)

When it gets to the deleted state, it's no longer accessible by the user but still exists in the system. I think tools like content, site (now assignment) should be similar, but may not have every state.

- I'm okay with anyone being able to temporarily remove (and restore) anything that they delete themselves. (In the Deleted state) 
- I feel like the ability to permanently delete either only be available to admin users  or just to quartz (jobs) that periodically clean out deleted content like  the SoftSiteDeletionJob and the CleanupDeletedContent job. It would be nice if there was some indication to the instructor of when it would be automatically deleted, but I feel that this should really be locked by a permission.

In a perfect Sakai world, all of these individual cleanup jobs would be refactored into one single job so it's easier to maintain, possibly with quartz job parameters with different values for how long to retain the content.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:07 PM Miguel Pellicer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi subscribers, would you like to restore removed assignments?

Imágenes integradas 1


https://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAK-33603 contains all the required changes to make it possible, feel free to take a look and comment for this really useful feature, the feedback from the community is very important.

It also allows the possibility to permanently remove an assignment.

Regards, Miguel

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Website: http://www.entornosdeformacion.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mpellicer-edf
Office Phone: +34 - 96 381 35 75
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Gordon, Patricia S. (Trisha) (psg3a) Gordon, Patricia S. (Trisha) (psg3a)
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Re: [sakai-dev] Re: [sakai-user] Would you like to restore assignments?

In reply to this post by Adam Marshall-2

 

 

 

“…as American as moms apple pie being eaten by a cowboy wearing a ten gallon hat in loud checked trousers”

 

Priceless.

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Tiffany Stull Tiffany Stull
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Re: [sakai-dev] Re: [sakai-user] Would you like to restore assignments?

In reply to this post by Adam Marshall-2

Adam,

Haha, yeah I'm not sure for the menu - "Trashed sites" does seem weird.  What if we just remove the Softly part and call them Deleted Sites?  I know they get purged after a time, but does the user need that as a distinction in the menu option?  It warns you when you softly delete that the deleted site will eventually be permanently deleted.

The Resources Trash (a.k.a. Restoring items page - by the way, the word Trash ought to appear somewhere on this page!) calls its content Deleted files, though you can only see this if there aren't any files currently in the Trash (it says There is no deleted file).

Tiffany


On 2/13/2018 4:56 AM, Adam Marshall wrote:
I am all for the harmonisation of terminology and the example you site is a good one.

I've never liked the term 'softly deleted'. Even though it's as American as moms apple pie being eaten by a cowboy wearing a ten gallon hat in loud checked trousers, 'move to trash' is universally understood. However, in worksite setup, what should the noun be in the view menu? 'trashed sites', doesn't sound right but is the obvious candidate.

Adam

Sent from my iPad

On 12 Feb 2018, at 22:51, Tiffany Stull <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Adam,

After sending my last message, I thought of a better example to illustrate the need to reduce the different terminology for similar functions in Sakai, rather than adding more differing terminology.  I understand that this is a goal of the UI/UX inventory project.

I worked with a user who was particularly concerned about the wording in the Import from Site process, indicating that what exactly would happen upon "replacing or merging data" was not clear (what gets replaced, and with what, or where do items get merged - do they leave the original site when they are added to the new site?)  He also found it confusing that the word data is only used on the first page of this process, and nowhere else, i.e., I would like to replace my data vs. I would like to merge my data.  The second and third pages of the process refer to the content to be copied as Material: page 2 says Import Material from Other Sites, and page 3, Re-use Material from Other Sites.

Meanwhile, our Help documentation refers to "items being copied" as content, for example: How do I copy content from one site to another? is the article about Import from Site.  The link to access the cross-site copy functionality within Resources and Drop Box is Copy content from my other sites. (The Help article for that is How do I copy a Resources file or folder from one site to another site?)

Why not use the word content in the Import from Site process too, for example: Replace content in this site with content copied from other site(s) and Add copied content to this site? OK, maybe that makes the link text too long, but I'm sure it could be edited down with appropriate descriptions on the page to clarify what will happen when you follow the steps after clicking each link.

All this to say that wherever possible, we need to lessen the number of different words used to describe similar functions so it is clear, for example, that "Stuff I delete from X tool goes in that tool's Trash, where I can go to restore it."

Tiffany


On 2/12/2018 4:40 PM, Tiffany Stull wrote:

Yes, and perhaps that should not be the case.  The average user is familiar with the terminology Trash because on most computers, softly deleted files go in a Trash or Recycling Bin.

However, because of how Softly Deleted sites are accessed for restore (via the drop-down menu in Worksite Setup), it makes more sense to have different terminology for it than for two tabs with essentially the same functionality in tools (Resources and Assignments) within a course or project site.  Also, and I could be completely wrong here, I would guess that more users accidentally delete and want to restore assignments (especially if these have student submissions!) than those who delete sites.

Tiffany

On 2/12/2018 4:27 PM, Adam Marshall wrote:
Sites are referred to as 'softly deleted' so there's already two bits of differing terminology.

Adam

Sent from my rather wonderful OnePlus phone




On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 9:03 PM +0000, "Tiffany Stull" <[hidden email]> wrote:

That said, for consistency's sake, maybe the tab should be named Trash so it matches Resources?

Tiffany


On 2/12/2018 3:19 PM, Tiffany Stull wrote:

Hi Miguel,

I like it too, and added a vote.  Maybe it could also be a model for the soft delete/restore I requested for Tests & Quizzes in SAM-3237?

Tiffany Stull

On 2/12/2018 1:49 PM, Dede Hourican wrote:
Miguel, 

Like Jolie, I think this is a wonderful idea. My upvote is in the jira as well. 

Dede Hourican 
__________________________ 
Phone (860) 333-8799

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:23 PM, 'Matthew Jones' via Sakai Development <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think we should have some consistency in Sakai around soft delete. I kind of like how evaluation handles progression of state. There's 7 states defined in the constants file

     States: Partial -> InQueue -> Active -> GracePeriod -> Closed -> Viewable (-> Deleted)

When it gets to the deleted state, it's no longer accessible by the user but still exists in the system. I think tools like content, site (now assignment) should be similar, but may not have every state.

- I'm okay with anyone being able to temporarily remove (and restore) anything that they delete themselves. (In the Deleted state) 
- I feel like the ability to permanently delete either only be available to admin users  or just to quartz (jobs) that periodically clean out deleted content like  the SoftSiteDeletionJob and the CleanupDeletedContent job. It would be nice if there was some indication to the instructor of when it would be automatically deleted, but I feel that this should really be locked by a permission.

In a perfect Sakai world, all of these individual cleanup jobs would be refactored into one single job so it's easier to maintain, possibly with quartz job parameters with different values for how long to retain the content.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:07 PM Miguel Pellicer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi subscribers, would you like to restore removed assignments?

<unnamed.gif>


https://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAK-33603 contains all the required changes to make it possible, feel free to take a look and comment for this really useful feature, the feedback from the community is very important.

It also allows the possibility to permanently remove an assignment.

Regards, Miguel

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Tiffany Stull Tiffany Stull
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Re: [sakai-dev] Re: [sakai-user] Would you like to restore assignments?

In reply to this post by Miguel Pellicer Carro

Hi Miguel,

Why do you think it important to support Hard delete before making Remove/Delete and Restore options available in Samigo?  Right now, I'm guessing that Samigo tables in most Sakai databases contain a great many "softly deleted" exams, some of them years old.  Whether or not users are permitted to restore the currently "softly deleted" exams on their own will not change whether these exams exist.

At a minimum, I would really like the Remove option as it functioned in Sakai versions 10 and earlier added back in (where you can delete exams with submissions and developers can restore them in the DB if needed).  The (in my opinion, really annoying) issues in SAM-3091 and SAM-3177 (cannot delete assessment if instructor takes exam in Student View or if a student/member who submitted has left the site/been made inactive) were caused by attempts to prevent deleting exams with submissions.  Deleting these would not have been problematic in the first place if instructors could simply restore their own deleted exams.

Tiffany

On 2/13/2018 6:12 AM, Miguel Pellicer wrote:

Yes, It's a similar model but Samigo needs more work to support Hard-delete through API's and persistence.

We have it in a 10.x instance but was developed on demand, hard to contribute because we have more changes, I would like to do it for Master (Maybe targeted for 13). We don't call it "Removed assessments" or "Softly deleted", we call it "Archived", we use the "Archive" "Restore" "Delete" wording.

Miguel


El 12/02/2018 a las 21:19, Tiffany Stull escribió:

Hi Miguel,

I like it too, and added a vote.  Maybe it could also be a model for the soft delete/restore I requested for Tests & Quizzes in SAM-3237?

Tiffany Stull

On 2/12/2018 1:49 PM, Dede Hourican wrote:
Miguel, 

Like Jolie, I think this is a wonderful idea. My upvote is in the jira as well. 

Dede Hourican 
__________________________ 
Phone (860) 333-8799

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:23 PM, 'Matthew Jones' via Sakai Development <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think we should have some consistency in Sakai around soft delete. I kind of like how evaluation handles progression of state. There's 7 states defined in the constants file

     States: Partial -> InQueue -> Active -> GracePeriod -> Closed -> Viewable (-> Deleted)

When it gets to the deleted state, it's no longer accessible by the user but still exists in the system. I think tools like content, site (now assignment) should be similar, but may not have every state.

- I'm okay with anyone being able to temporarily remove (and restore) anything that they delete themselves. (In the Deleted state) 
- I feel like the ability to permanently delete either only be available to admin users  or just to quartz (jobs) that periodically clean out deleted content like  the SoftSiteDeletionJob and the CleanupDeletedContent job. It would be nice if there was some indication to the instructor of when it would be automatically deleted, but I feel that this should really be locked by a permission.

In a perfect Sakai world, all of these individual cleanup jobs would be refactored into one single job so it's easier to maintain, possibly with quartz job parameters with different values for how long to retain the content.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:07 PM Miguel Pellicer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi subscribers, would you like to restore removed assignments?

Imágenes integradas 1


https://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAK-33603 contains all the required changes to make it possible, feel free to take a look and comment for this really useful feature, the feedback from the community is very important.

It also allows the possibility to permanently remove an assignment.

Regards, Miguel

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Website: http://www.entornosdeformacion.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mpellicer-edf
Office Phone: +34 - 96 381 35 75
-----------------------------------------------

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Adam Marshall-2 Adam Marshall-2
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RE: [sakai-dev] Re: [sakai-user] Would you like to restore assignments?

In reply to this post by Tiffany Stull

Deleted would work for me

 

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Digital Education at Oxford: http://www.digitaleducation.ox.ac.uk/  

 

 

From: Tiffany Stull [mailto:[hidden email]]
Sent: 13 February 2018 14:12
To: Adam Marshall <[hidden email]>
Cc: Dede Hourican <[hidden email]>; Matthew Jones <[hidden email]>; Miguel Pellicer <[hidden email]>; sakai-user <[hidden email]>; sakai-dev <[hidden email]>
Subject: Re: [sakai-dev] Re: [sakai-user] Would you like to restore assignments?

 

Adam,

Haha, yeah I'm not sure for the menu - "Trashed sites" does seem weird.  What if we just remove the Softly part and call them Deleted Sites?  I know they get purged after a time, but does the user need that as a distinction in the menu option?  It warns you when you softly delete that the deleted site will eventually be permanently deleted.

The Resources Trash (a.k.a. Restoring items page - by the way, the word Trash ought to appear somewhere on this page!) calls its content Deleted files, though you can only see this if there aren't any files currently in the Trash (it says There is no deleted file).

Tiffany

 

On 2/13/2018 4:56 AM, Adam Marshall wrote:

I am all for the harmonisation of terminology and the example you site is a good one.

 

I've never liked the term 'softly deleted'. Even though it's as American as moms apple pie being eaten by a cowboy wearing a ten gallon hat in loud checked trousers, 'move to trash' is universally understood. However, in worksite setup, what should the noun be in the view menu? 'trashed sites', doesn't sound right but is the obvious candidate.

 

Adam

Sent from my iPad


On 12 Feb 2018, at 22:51, Tiffany Stull <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi Adam,

After sending my last message, I thought of a better example to illustrate the need to reduce the different terminology for similar functions in Sakai, rather than adding more differing terminology.  I understand that this is a goal of the UI/UX inventory project.

I worked with a user who was particularly concerned about the wording in the Import from Site process, indicating that what exactly would happen upon "replacing or merging data" was not clear (what gets replaced, and with what, or where do items get merged - do they leave the original site when they are added to the new site?)  He also found it confusing that the word data is only used on the first page of this process, and nowhere else, i.e., I would like to replace my data vs. I would like to merge my data.  The second and third pages of the process refer to the content to be copied as Material: page 2 says Import Material from Other Sites, and page 3, Re-use Material from Other Sites.

Meanwhile, our Help documentation refers to "items being copied" as content, for example: How do I copy content from one site to another? is the article about Import from Site.  The link to access the cross-site copy functionality within Resources and Drop Box is Copy content from my other sites. (The Help article for that is How do I copy a Resources file or folder from one site to another site?)

Why not use the word content in the Import from Site process too, for example: Replace content in this site with content copied from other site(s) and Add copied content to this site? OK, maybe that makes the link text too long, but I'm sure it could be edited down with appropriate descriptions on the page to clarify what will happen when you follow the steps after clicking each link.

All this to say that wherever possible, we need to lessen the number of different words used to describe similar functions so it is clear, for example, that "Stuff I delete from X tool goes in that tool's Trash, where I can go to restore it."

Tiffany

 

On 2/12/2018 4:40 PM, Tiffany Stull wrote:

Yes, and perhaps that should not be the case.  The average user is familiar with the terminology Trash because on most computers, softly deleted files go in a Trash or Recycling Bin.

However, because of how Softly Deleted sites are accessed for restore (via the drop-down menu in Worksite Setup), it makes more sense to have different terminology for it than for two tabs with essentially the same functionality in tools (Resources and Assignments) within a course or project site.  Also, and I could be completely wrong here, I would guess that more users accidentally delete and want to restore assignments (especially if these have student submissions!) than those who delete sites.

Tiffany

On 2/12/2018 4:27 PM, Adam Marshall wrote:

Sites are referred to as 'softly deleted' so there's already two bits of differing terminology.

Adam

Sent from my rather wonderful OnePlus phone

 



On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 9:03 PM +0000, "Tiffany Stull" <[hidden email]> wrote:

That said, for consistency's sake, maybe the tab should be named Trash so it matches Resources?

Tiffany

 

On 2/12/2018 3:19 PM, Tiffany Stull wrote:

Hi Miguel,

I like it too, and added a vote.  Maybe it could also be a model for the soft delete/restore I requested for Tests & Quizzes in SAM-3237?

Tiffany Stull

On 2/12/2018 1:49 PM, Dede Hourican wrote:

Miguel, 

 

Like Jolie, I think this is a wonderful idea. My upvote is in the jira as well. 


Dede Hourican 

__________________________ 

Phone (860) 333-8799

 

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:23 PM, 'Matthew Jones' via Sakai Development <[hidden email]> wrote:

I think we should have some consistency in Sakai around soft delete. I kind of like how evaluation handles progression of state. There's 7 states defined in the constants file

 

     States: Partial -> InQueue -> Active -> GracePeriod -> Closed -> Viewable (-> Deleted)

 

When it gets to the deleted state, it's no longer accessible by the user but still exists in the system. I think tools like content, site (now assignment) should be similar, but may not have every state.

 

- I'm okay with anyone being able to temporarily remove (and restore) anything that they delete themselves. (In the Deleted state) 

- I feel like the ability to permanently delete either only be available to admin users  or just to quartz (jobs) that periodically clean out deleted content like  the SoftSiteDeletionJob and the CleanupDeletedContent job. It would be nice if there was some indication to the instructor of when it would be automatically deleted, but I feel that this should really be locked by a permission.

 

In a perfect Sakai world, all of these individual cleanup jobs would be refactored into one single job so it's easier to maintain, possibly with quartz job parameters with different values for how long to retain the content.

 

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:07 PM Miguel Pellicer <[hidden email]> wrote:

Hi subscribers, would you like to restore removed assignments?

 

<unnamed.gif>

 

 

https://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAK-33603 contains all the required changes to make it possible, feel free to take a look and comment for this really useful feature, the feedback from the community is very important.

 

It also allows the possibility to permanently remove an assignment.

 

Regards, Miguel

 

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Re: [sakai-dev] Re: [sakai-user] Would you like to restore assignments?

In reply to this post by Tiffany Stull

Hi Tiffany,

I didn't mean we need to support Hard delete before anything else, I'm just saying that Samigo should support it like the other tools, to get consistency and clean up the database which contains tons of data. I like Matt's idea, leave the hard delete option for admins (In the UI) and do asome jobs to clean up the softly deleted data every XX months or years, the database shouldn't grow forever.

Miguel


El 13/02/2018 a las 16:58, Tiffany Stull escribió:

Hi Miguel,

Why do you think it important to support Hard delete before making Remove/Delete and Restore options available in Samigo?  Right now, I'm guessing that Samigo tables in most Sakai databases contain a great many "softly deleted" exams, some of them years old.  Whether or not users are permitted to restore the currently "softly deleted" exams on their own will not change whether these exams exist.

At a minimum, I would really like the Remove option as it functioned in Sakai versions 10 and earlier added back in (where you can delete exams with submissions and developers can restore them in the DB if needed).  The (in my opinion, really annoying) issues in SAM-3091 and SAM-3177 (cannot delete assessment if instructor takes exam in Student View or if a student/member who submitted has left the site/been made inactive) were caused by attempts to prevent deleting exams with submissions.  Deleting these would not have been problematic in the first place if instructors could simply restore their own deleted exams.

Tiffany

On 2/13/2018 6:12 AM, Miguel Pellicer wrote:

Yes, It's a similar model but Samigo needs more work to support Hard-delete through API's and persistence.

We have it in a 10.x instance but was developed on demand, hard to contribute because we have more changes, I would like to do it for Master (Maybe targeted for 13). We don't call it "Removed assessments" or "Softly deleted", we call it "Archived", we use the "Archive" "Restore" "Delete" wording.

Miguel


El 12/02/2018 a las 21:19, Tiffany Stull escribió:

Hi Miguel,

I like it too, and added a vote.  Maybe it could also be a model for the soft delete/restore I requested for Tests & Quizzes in SAM-3237?

Tiffany Stull

On 2/12/2018 1:49 PM, Dede Hourican wrote:
Miguel, 

Like Jolie, I think this is a wonderful idea. My upvote is in the jira as well. 

Dede Hourican 
__________________________ 
Phone (860) 333-8799

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:23 PM, 'Matthew Jones' via Sakai Development <[hidden email]> wrote:
I think we should have some consistency in Sakai around soft delete. I kind of like how evaluation handles progression of state. There's 7 states defined in the constants file

     States: Partial -> InQueue -> Active -> GracePeriod -> Closed -> Viewable (-> Deleted)

When it gets to the deleted state, it's no longer accessible by the user but still exists in the system. I think tools like content, site (now assignment) should be similar, but may not have every state.

- I'm okay with anyone being able to temporarily remove (and restore) anything that they delete themselves. (In the Deleted state) 
- I feel like the ability to permanently delete either only be available to admin users  or just to quartz (jobs) that periodically clean out deleted content like  the SoftSiteDeletionJob and the CleanupDeletedContent job. It would be nice if there was some indication to the instructor of when it would be automatically deleted, but I feel that this should really be locked by a permission.

In a perfect Sakai world, all of these individual cleanup jobs would be refactored into one single job so it's easier to maintain, possibly with quartz job parameters with different values for how long to retain the content.

On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 1:07 PM Miguel Pellicer <[hidden email]> wrote:
Hi subscribers, would you like to restore removed assignments?

Imágenes integradas 1


https://jira.sakaiproject.org/browse/SAK-33603 contains all the required changes to make it possible, feel free to take a look and comment for this really useful feature, the feedback from the community is very important.

It also allows the possibility to permanently remove an assignment.

Regards, Miguel

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LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mpellicer-edf
Office Phone: +34 - 96 381 35 75
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Miguel Pellicer
CTO at EDF

Website: http://www.entornosdeformacion.com/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mpellicer-edf
Office Phone: +34 - 96 381 35 75
-----------------------------------------------

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